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Virgin emails not working?
Very disappointed with Virgin Media email supportcom email address and prefer to POP rather than IMAP This has been running for almost 20 years. Tap Manage next to Manage your Virgin Media Mail app password under Virgin Media Mail. Jun 20, 2023 · A Virgin Media spokesperson said: “We’re aware of an issue that is affecting our Virgin Media email service for customers. Using over 20 different devices. In today’s digital age, having a reliable mobile network provider is essential. When we go on youtube through the app we either just get a black screen and the remote does nothing at all or it plays a Netflix trailer that we can't get off and then goes black. Username: your full Virgin Media email address. However I have no dial tone and cannot make or receive calls. I have one 8. VM have recently changed their email server. With the constant evolution of technology, email service. Jun 20, 2023 · Virgin Media email is no longer available to new customers, but many existing customers still rely on it for work. For example, test@example. To workaround this issue submit an alternative third-party email address and then immediately resubmit the previous one; keep the tab open until the verification link is recieved. To set up access to Virgin email on your Android phone or tablet, first you need to open the Email app on your Android device, find Settings and then choose Add a new account. In today’s digital age, email marketing continues to be one of the most effective ways to reach and engage with your target audience. Using Google Chrome all updated Have. on 04-07-2023 09:50. It will happen to any e-mail sent via the Home Hub via third-party providers as the outgoing IP of the Hub address is listed (and blacklisted). On webmail (shown in the photo below), I cannot forward any emails as the button to do so is greyed out, along with the reply and delete buttons. net in Email a month ago; Damp issues caused by CATV box in QuickStart, set up and connections 05-06-2024 Jul 12, 2023 · Update 2 (June 22, 2023) 04:41 pm (IST): The Virgin Media support team confirmed that the issue has finally been resolved. When we're on vacation, many of us find it difficult to avoid all email. make a note of new App Password. Logged on to Virgin Media and couldn't change m. on 30-01-2023 10:29. When I switched on on Saturday morning I had been locked out of my Virgin email completely and Outlook was not able to send/receive. Note: If you update your username in My Virgin Media, this email address will not change. It might already be tied to your @virgin Email in a browser. Whether it’s for personal or professional use, having a secure email login is crucial to protect your. • Tap Manage next to Manage your Virgin Media Mail app password under Virgin Media Mail. In fact Mail on my iphone still recognises the original password and not the app one. Since MetroPCS uses two different. A workaround for this issue is to: submit a different Sign in Email Address. Port: 465 (this might not be selected automating by enabling SSL, so please check) Authentication: Password. Solved: Anyone else having email issues this morning. Graham I'm a Very Insightful Person, I'm here to share knowledge, I don't work for Virgin Media, I'm a VM customer. When we're on vacation, many of us find it difficult to avoid all email. Jul 26, 2023 · The phone's software is the latest version, and on the iPhone all buttons work. This is either because your Virgin Media Mail account is locked, or because. Options. I have an issue with my additional Virgin web email account. A workaround for this issue is to: submit a different Sign in Email Address. I have worked through a number of solutions including the accessing of managing the email setup through settings and then accounts. COM using my NTLWORLD email address as my Primary login. Learn how to run a service status check and get more info on Virgin Media issues. * Sign in to My Virgin Media * Go to Account settings, then Account details * Tap Manage next to Manage your Virgin Media Mail app password under Virgin Media Mail * Then, under Virgin Media Mail app password tap Get password * Continue the flow and a new secure password. Restart your router or modem if necessary. com — in this case there is no server running for the message to be delivered to, i mail delivery fails and is returned to sender. on 27-07-2023 09:41. Then, under Virgin Media Mail app password tap Get password. When we go on youtube through the app we either just get a black screen and the remote does nothing at all or it plays a Netflix trailer that we can't get off and then goes black. When I click on the compose button nothing seems to happen, however that lights up red Nov 7, 2023 · To reset the password for an email account you have to sign into My Virgin Media using the email address and current password of the problem account. Please can you help resolve this problem. Our teams are unable to generate App Passwords on your behalf. 04-08-2017 2:12:41 PM Posted in Email. In today’s digital world, staying connected is more important than ever. I read somewhere here that I needed to go to my Virgin Media Account Settings and to 'Generate new App password'. Virgin Media has apologised to users of its email services after long-running problems stopped some users accessing inboxes or sending messages. when I try to get email for my virgin I haven't been able to access mail via the web since Wednesday. When the page does load, the moment you type anything in it starts to reload and continues in this cycle all the time. IMAP which is the one most email clients default to. In today’s digital world, staying connected is more important than ever. Then it doesn't recognise my password. As far as I can see, my primary e-mail address is working and I can log into My Virgin Media. Username: your full Virgin Media email address. However, the support desk made me change my Primary login to a Gmail address with a new password. Some Virgin Media customers have not been able to access their e-mails this morning. I access my emails via laptop only. Update any third-party apps that may be use to access your. Our Virgin. This is both logging in via web browser and m. So it's gone down AGAIN. Sign in to My Virgin Media Go to Account settings, then Account details Tap Manage next to Manage your Virgin Media Mail app password under Virgin Media Mail Then, under Virgin Media Mail app password tap Generate new App password and follow the instructions. Have you tried the following: • Sign in to My Virgin Media. VM said that existing customer email addresses would continue to be supported. Have rebooted computer but that has not helped. Jul 5, 2023 · My main and most commonly used email address is working, but the other three email addresses that were set up under the same email inbox/account are no longer working. on 27-07-2023 09:41. It might already be tied to your @virgin Email in a browser. That's why using phone data is OK and why the Virgin Web Mail is OK (the outgoing address there is the central Virgin one, not your Hub). Virgin email wont load in widows 10. Go to Account settings, then Account details b. So if you're missing a booking confirmation it may be stuck on the Virgin Media servers. Getting "Your Virgin Media Mail account is currently unavailable". So if you're missing a booking confirmation it may be stuck on the Virgin Media servers. We have had this email address since the mid 90's (dial up). If you have WLM 2012 you will have to replace it with WLM 2011. To fix this you'll need to log in to your router and change a few settings. Mail settings you might need from your email provider. Forum Team (Retired) Options. nijisanji en previous identity 15 today and Virgin have said they cannot sort out this problem which I feel they caused, but have completed their troubleshooting and enabled me to access my emails on their website. “Our teams are working to resolve the problem as quickly as. Jul 5, 2023 · My main and most commonly used email address is working, but the other three email addresses that were set up under the same email inbox/account are no longer working. Recovering NTLWorld account. I was oblivious to the 90-day rule for keeping my email account running (which happened to be @NTLWorld rather than @VM) and in fact the account kept working for about 10 months until the end of. Setup Your Virgin. To access your Virgin. Good evening, Not able to send emails, AGAIN, i receive them but can't reply or send an original email, i have checked to make sure there are no issues in area and checked my hub and all is fine. Problems in the last 24 hours. So if you are using Virgin's IMAP server in the email client's settings then emails you send from your email client should appear in the Sent folder in the email client and your VM webmail account on. Ensure you have a stable and working internet connection. Estimated fix time is 14:10. So, I then contacted Virgin Help desk by phone. On my laptop I have just noticed that none of my recent sent emails are showing up in the sent folder and many have just disappeared from that folder's history. DJ_PaulTUK (@DJ_PaulTUK) reported 31 minutes ago. no answers from virgin or warning. Sent emails missing On our wavelength on 19-05-2023 17:25. Internet, mobile or cable tv down? We'll tell you what is going on. I can access my emails but it won't allow me to move or delete them, the move and delete icons are in light grey and not responding. We cover the many ways that you can earn Virgin Australia Velocity frequent flyer points. In today’s digital age, email has become an essential tool for communication. Hello My name is Sammy and I work for Virgin Media. Control Panel (view by large icons) > Mail Applet (outlook) > in the resulting window > Email Accounts > Email Tab, > New > add your VM account, only the mail address & its password is required. Your full Virgin email address should be visible in both fields Nov 18, 2023 · link is unlikely to be successful for email accounts that have not previously been reset via the My Virgin Media account route. crazy driving gif If indeed the Profile is corrupt. com account that has stopped working the ntlworld. A Virgin Mobile cellphone is activated by going to the Virgin Mobile USA website. The message I get is: Cannot send mail The username or password for xxx@smtpco. Virgin Mobile is a mobile services provider of prepaid wireless voice, broadband data and messaging services. When you get a minute spare can you please follow the steps below for Outlook access. (ii) used a new email address to login into my. Hi Natalie, When I sign into My Virgin media account via google / safari I can access my ntl world emails, but the three virginmedia email accounts that are linked to this appear with a warning triangle ! and " The entered credential or authentication information does not work or are no longer accepted by provider. I have the same problem here with firefox since yesterday - spoke with support today and the only suggestion was to ditch firefox. Jul 26, 2023 · The phone's software is the latest version, and on the iPhone all buttons work. Jul 10, 2023 · Can't sign in to my virgin media email on the website or the app not been working all weekend, also my account says my bill is overdue but was paid on the 28th June. Solved: Hi Posting on behalf of my Dad who has been unable to access his Ntlworld account for some time now. Port: 465 (this might not be selected automating by enabling SSL, so please check) Authentication: Password. A Virgin Mobile cellphone is activated by going to the Virgin Mobile USA website. I will pop one over to you now, please keep an eye out for the envelope at the top of your screen alerting you to a new message. • Sign in to My Virgin Media. I believe it may of started when a security update was done or the Virgin server has 'detected' a virus of some description. Our secondary e-mail address stopped working this evening. Hi Natalie, When I sign into My Virgin media account via google / safari I can access my ntl world emails, but the three virginmedia email accounts that are linked to this appear with a warning triangle ! and " The entered credential or authentication information does not work or are no longer accepted by provider. If you change the password for the account in My Virgin Media > account settings > Account details you will not be able to use the new password to access the account via an email client. Estimated fix time is 14:10. pepsico employees retirement plan 103 The firm's messaging servers hit problems late last month with customers blocked from their accounts. It appears that if a huge company such as Virgin is unable to fix this issue within a month that the likelihood of getting these email accounts back again seems unlikely. The link from virginmedia Cookie clearing does not resolve. Find out more about the Virgin TV Go app. I note that others on this forum seem to be having similar if not identical issues. Text us 📲 on +44753 305 1809, and WhatsApp us on +447305 327 112. I read somewhere here that I needed to go to my Virgin Media Account Settings and to 'Generate new App password'. Virgin Media customers worry emails gone for good. VM told some customers yesterday: "You are now able to send and receive emails as you normally would. @IainC1 The only official statement from Virgin Media is that since May 2022 new VM customers are not given a Virgin Media email address. Mar 16, 2017 · Try it now: go to your Virgin Media Mail online by clicking the Email link in the top-right of virginmedia Email settings for addresses ending in @ virgin Manual configuration settings for email. At the top of the website there is a menu and one of the options is titled Activate Find the nearest Virgin Mobile retailer by selecting the Find A Store link at the top of VirginMobileUSA National retailers, including Best Buy, Target, RadioShack and Wal-Mar. We have one account but separate email addresses. Can't sign in to my virgin media email on the website or the app not been working all weekend, also my account says my bill is overdue but was paid on the 28th June. Nov 1, 2023 · Sign In to My Virgin Media Go to Account settings, then Account details Tap Manage next to M anage your Virgin Media Mail app password under Virgin Media Mail Then, under Virgin Media Mail app password tap Get password. I have a gmail email and that works fine going through my laptop a. Hi Sabrina thankyou. FINGERS CROSSED to all those waiting. Jul 10, 2023 · Can't sign in to my virgin media email on the website or the app not been working all weekend, also my account says my bill is overdue but was paid on the 28th June. Check here to find the answers to your questions here and get in touch with us if you need to. I am sorry to hear about the email issues you are having via your iPhone. I am a Virgin Media customer. In today’s digital age, having a professional work email is crucial for effective communication and building a strong online presence. Solved: Hi Posting on behalf of my Dad who has been unable to access his Ntlworld account for some time now. Virgin Media's UK Broadband ISP Customers Suffer Email Outage UPDATE5.
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But this time it's gone dow n,and NOT a problem with receiving emails. One left almost 3 weeks ago and one left 2 weeks ago, although I had been experiencing issues prior to that but just bungled them up with. Please try again in a moment. Solved: Hi Posting on behalf of my Dad who has been unable to access his Ntlworld account for some time now. Since MetroPCS uses two different. But I can access them on my phone. At wits end - DHCP issues with Virgin Media in Networking and WiFi 2 hours ago; Netgear Orbi RBR50 not working with Virgin Hub 5 in Networking and WiFi 14 hours ago; Email NTLWORLD stopped working on iPad in Email yesterday; Red light flashing in Networking and WiFi yesterday; Unable to login to ntlworld in Email yesterday Host name: smtpcom. We understand that you're Virgin Media email account has stopped. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. The VM email service has seen many changes in the last year. Hi, pp. The problem is apparent on my laptop & phone. net Account with Your Email Program Using IMAP. com email not working in Email 17 minutes ago; Internet Connection drops out every day in Networking and WiFi 58 minutes ago; Re: Email address still connected to old account. In Outlook 2016, choose File. Thank you for your patience whilst we get this sorted! All the best. If you have WLM 2012 you will have to replace it with WLM 2011. The graph below depicts the number of Virgin Media reports received over the last 24 hours by time of day. This is either because your Virgin Media Mail account is locked, or because. Options. I called VM and they told me that those addresses will not be working for much longer. Even today, on Twitter users are still contacting the service provider with. In today’s fast-paced digital world, email has become an essential communication tool for individuals and businesses alike. If you're new to Inbox or just confused about what it does and how it works, here's what we've found after a wee. So far I have had 5 calls with them and I still can't connect. american traditional tattoo sleeve Very disappointed with Virgin Media email supportcom email address and prefer to POP rather than IMAP This has been running for almost 20 years. Downdetector, which tracks website outages, has received reports from hundreds of users with a spike from around 7 We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. Please try again in a moment. For Android devices, go the Main Menu > Guide > My Shows > Manage > Info > Remote Control. In today’s digital age, email has become an essential tool for communication. I've phoned Virigin Media and they advise that it's a known problem and would be fixed the latest time I go. I get 'Cannot connect to the server'. With so many options available, it can be overwhelming to choose the right one for your needs Virgin Mobile customer service can be contacted by phone or by filling out an online form on their website. Are you in the market for a new broadband provider? Virgin Broadband is one of the most popular choices, but before you sign up, there are a few things you need to know about their. YOUR VIRGIN MEDIA EMAIL IS LOCKED and. com was more responsive than imapcom The Google Mail app pushes out imapcom and Thunderbird pushes out imapcom, so on the pc try using imapcom and you may get some usage back. YOUR VIRGIN MEDIA EMAIL IS LOCKED and. Could you please tell us if you're accessing the emails on your. Probably another thread on a consistent but now really boring issue. It was easier for me to change those addresses to my other ntlworld address for now, but I will have a mammoth task when they all. I have an issue with my additional Virgin web email account. com was more responsive than imapcom The Google Mail app pushes out imapcom and Thunderbird pushes out imapcom, so on the pc try using imapcom and you may get some usage back. A call to 150 revealed that I was one of many in this situation as Virgin. I can't access my Virgin Account or my e-mail account today. ada showers lowes no answers from virgin or warning. Locked out since 14:45, VM303, changed verification to non-virgin email but stuck in Email Wednesday; Unable to send emails in Email a week ago; ntlworld POP email not working June 2024 in Email 2 weeks ago; Access to my home server under my WiFi home network on a Hub 5 router in Networking and WiFi 2 weeks ago Since the work being done on the email service (16/06/23) my wife's email has been not updating and is last message is the one on the16th June. link is unlikely to be successful for email accounts that have not previously been reset via the My Virgin Media account route. At wits end - DHCP issues with Virgin Media in Networking and WiFi 2 hours ago; Netgear Orbi RBR50 not working with Virgin Hub 5 in Networking and WiFi 14 hours ago; Email NTLWORLD stopped working on iPad in Email yesterday; Red light flashing in Networking and WiFi yesterday; Unable to login to ntlworld in Email yesterday Host name: smtpcom. It's been working fine for years with the current settings but stopped working on Saturday. If you can't access your email, or you can't send and receive messages with your @icloud. Find out more to see which ways work best for you! We may be compensated when you click on. It will happen to any e-mail sent via the Home Hub via third-party providers as the outgoing IP of the Hub address is listed (and blacklisted). Find out if Virgin Media is down in your area or if the problem is with your services at home. 2) Once you have pasted it into Word, replace Username with your full Virgin Media email address , and Password with. I can't access my Virgin Account or my e-mail account today. We have now restored the ability to send and receive emails for all affected accounts. Email not working Joining in on 02-07-2023 12:00. Restart your router or modem if necessary. stopped working 31-01-22 Nothing displayed - it works properly in Chrome/Brave edge browser access to virgin media (ntlworld account) mail box stopped working. u haul rental cost When I checked around 9:30am I could not load up the web email page, I then checked on my phone and my email app could not get access. Thanks, Mike Apologies that our team was unable to resolve this issue when speaking to you and that the IT team will need to investigate this further for you. Because no contract is required, users can quit their plans at any tim. I understand that this is an ongoing issue and the 'we are aware of this. When i tried to reconfigure my email account into a fresh setup even though i have authenticated with. Evening, My blueyonder email account is not working on my PC or through my mobile. When we're on vacation, many of us find it difficult to avoid all email. Virgin Media outages and problems. yes virgin mail [MOD EDIT: Language] yet again,been playing up since 9am. Sent emails missing On our wavelength on 19-05-2023 17:25. If you are running Windows 8 or Windows 10 then you will already have a Microsoft Account. Recovering NTLWorld account. 26-06-2023 21:36 - edited 26-06-2023 21:38. 16/04/24, 23:04:47: SEND - Connecting to SMTP server smtpcom on port 465. YOUR VIRGIN MEDIA EMAIL IS LOCKED and. Do you have any idea on what is causing this intermittent (but rather annoying) problem? Other people have reported it as well.
Been receiving messages nearly daily advising issue will be fixed next day. com email address, learn what to do. My wifes email ( using safari email app, stopped working ) Tried online chat but the person didn't understand the issue. • Tap Manage next to Manage your Virgin Media Mail app password under Virgin Media Mail. However I have no dial tone and cannot make or receive calls. I have one 8. Feb 21, 2024 · My blueyonder e-mail is not sending OR receiving via Outlook on my desktop computer. I have spent nearly 5 hours on the phone today with Virgin trying to get them to fix my e mail. valic login Please can you help resolve this problem. Hi there, new customer of Virgin Media here. We have been using Virgin services for years. We found online answer, which was we needed to generate a password using the password generator on your myvirginmedia account, when we tried this, it requested to change our curre. Are you experiencing difficulties logging in to your Virgin Media email account? Don’t worry, you’re not alone. Yes, it’s intermittent I’m now noticing. net email account from a desktop email program, you'll need the IMAP and SMTP settings below: IMAP Settings Virgin imap4netnet IMAP Port Email STILL NOT WORKING AFTER 4 WEEKS - And someone keeps removing my posts!!!Email STILL NOT WORKING AFT On our wavelength on 18-07-2023 06:51. I've tried doing some research on this and have established that it's all to do with DMARC and SPF settings, etc (which is too technical for me to work with). used aluminum fishing boats for sale by owner Go to Account settings, then Account details b. VM told some customers yesterday: "You are now able to send and receive emails as you normally would. According to Virgin Media, the problem is due to the upgrade to their spam and abuse system, which locks some email profiles for security reasons. 1 laptop with Windows Live Mail 2012. Your full Virgin email address should be visible in both fields Go to Account settings, then Account details. Hi KFo, thanks for the message and welcome to the forums. For me, I get: 16/04/24, 23:04:47: SEND - sending mail message (s) - 1 message (s) in queue. ci proud Then, under Virgin Media Mail app password tap Get password. I have generated NUMEROUS new passwords, but nothing seems to work, and doing a send and receive in server settings get. Hi there, new customer of Virgin Media here. If you purchased your mobile phone through Virgin, it came locked to that network. Hi coenoby, thanks for the heads up.
However, you will have noticed that any emails received on or before 19 June will not be appearing in your inbox, sent items or any other folders. Note: If you update your username in My Virgin Media, this email address will not change. I access my emails via laptop only. It's like it just crashes. I refer to my previous posts below. I have checked all the email settings and they appear correct. Letters sent by a lawyer for Gateway Church pastor Robert Morris shed light on how he explained his sexual misconduct with Cindy Clemishire. email works fine with Chrome. Youtube app not working. A few days back, the company declared the issue on servers. I can't access my Virgin Account or my e-mail account today. Been working OK for years Did Myapp change password procedure but still not working. net Account with Your Email Program Using IMAP. Working hard to help connect the nation, shop our offers and order online. Outgoing e-mails not sending. You did a follow up to recover lost emails, after which I had a repeat of the folder synch problem with my virginmedia We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. We are just left with false. It will happen to any e-mail sent via the Home Hub via third-party providers as the outgoing IP of the Hub address is listed (and blacklisted). Continue the flow and a new secure password will be generated for you. To fix this you'll need to log in to your router and change a few settings. COM using my NTLWORLD email address as my Primary login. dobratz hantge I understand that this is an ongoing issue and the 'we are aware of this. Very frustrating! We have tried restarting the tivo box and unplugging it but it's not helped. As of yesterday he cannot receive any emails to this account and no longer able to logon to My Virgin media as does not recognise it. Any suggestions? Hi MalBudd, First and foremost, thanks for reaching out to our Microsoft Community Forum and please accept our sincerest hope that all is well. Mar 16, 2017 · Try it now: go to your Virgin Media Mail online by clicking the Email link in the top-right of virginmedia Email settings for addresses ending in @ virgin Manual configuration settings for email. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. I received the renewal email today and the link provided does not work. After connecting my landline phone via a RG 11 cable to my Virgin hub, I rebooted it. DJ_PaulTUK (@DJ_PaulTUK) reported 31 minutes ago. Forgot your email address ? If you're not using your own device, read our help on private browsing before you sign in So after weeks of internet issues, now my secondary email addresses do not work. I generally use the Mail app (with win10) on my pc for emails but have now started to see in the top right corner a 'Try the new Outlook' button. It gives me a message that says: "The entered credential or authentication information does not work or are no longer accepted by provider" This is either because your Virgin Media Mail account is locked, or because you don't have an active account with us anymore. Think he was on hold so long he gave up to be honest so think he will be trying again today. Any suggestions how to correct this. Then, under Virgin Media Mail app password tap Get password. Now I'm not receiving emails. I access my emails via laptop only. In today’s digital age, email has become an essential tool for communication. Blueyonder emails use the same Virgin Media server settings as set out here: The settings you need are: IMAP settings (recommended) Host Name: imapcom. select Account settings > Virgin Media Mail settings > Generate new App password. After 4 weeks trying to resolve this, VM said its a 3rd Party issue, so not able to offer any further support. bedwars script arceus x pastebin We have been using Virgin services for years. Jun 27, 2023 · The company operates several email domains, including @virginmediacom, @blueyonderuk, and @virgin Despite Virgin Media stating the situation has been resolved, a number of users are still complaining about the service not working properly. When I tried to send emails (they were still coming in at this point) I got the message SMTP connection to server smtpcom failed. Jun 30, 2023 · June 30, 2023 11:22 am (Updated 11:40 am) Virgin Media is once again having issues with its email service, with thousands of customers unable to access their accounts. With the increasing number of cyber threats and hacking incidents, it is crucial to take. The firm's messaging servers hit problems late last month with customers blocked from their accounts. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. In today’s digital age, email has become an essential tool for communication. Check your internet connection. Aug 7, 2023 · Thanks. Re: Blueyonder email on new laptop yesterday Hi, I was following a step by step process to get my blueyonderuk email account working on Outlook 365, on Windows 11. I have checked this with the team and it looks like this is a known issue that the team are working on resolving ASAP. As far as I can see, my primary e-mail address is working and I can log into My Virgin Media. If you have an existing Virgin Media Mail account with us, please follow the steps below, as your account may have been locked as a security precaution Reply select Account settings > Virgin Media Mail settings > Generate new App password. I've been unable to access my Blueyonder email on my phone and Mac book since Sunday night, when I look on my virgin media account it states its Your Mailbox is Not Available at the moment. Some customers were still reporting problems. Enter your Virgin email address in the address field and then enter it again in the username field. 16/04/24, 23:04:47: SEND - Connecting to SMTP server smtpcom on port 465. In today’s digital world, staying connected is more important than ever. Receiving mail (IMAP4) IMAP4 server namevirginmedia Hi SmoggyAli. Can I just ask if you are able to view then through your online account. I had the account unlocked aferccalling in and on the ensure all is fine however Outlook on Android constantly says log on details are incorrect ( they're not).